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Post by Sir John on Mar 27, 2013 19:11:39 GMT -5
WW2 Tank production figures (approx)
Panzer 4 9,000
Panzer 5 6,000
Panzer 6 500
Sherman 53,000
T34 84,000
Amazing. Mr Hitler did not have a hope in hades.
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Post by Swampy on Mar 27, 2013 19:32:34 GMT -5
As mentioned before, Moscow is only half way to the Urals, and the Urals are less than half way to eastern Siberia. Even a single thrust to capture Moscow would serve no purpose whatsoever. Stalin would simply have retreated east and set up a attack on Hitlers flanks that would have been a couple of 1000 Kms long. Even a 3 pronged attack that surrounded and then by-passed the 3 cities would not have helped. The day he invaded, he was doomed yet again. First in Sept 1939, then June 1941, and lastly Dec 1941. All just nails in the coffin, he had NIL hope of ever succeeding. SJ Good point, SJ, but Hitler may only have needed to go to Moscow and take the Caucasus. After that, Stalin may have been willing to negotiate - especially if the Japanese had attacked from behind.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2013 19:49:06 GMT -5
Hitler declared war on the U.S. in hope that Japan would declare war on Russia , didn't happen that way and freed up 90 Russian divisions to fight the Germans .
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Post by boxcar on Mar 27, 2013 19:57:16 GMT -5
Panzer 5 and panzer 6, were those the tiger and king tiger tanks?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2013 20:00:39 GMT -5
In reality what would have been the end result of Hitlers Germany , what was Germany motive in any of this except revenge , revenge that started with one shot in 1914 .
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Post by Swampy on Mar 27, 2013 21:16:36 GMT -5
It's hard to say what got Hitler to think the way he did, but, yes, revenge was a principal factor because of the Treaty of Versailles. That said, other Germans had no desire to exterminate the so-called sub-humans.
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Post by Sir John on Mar 28, 2013 15:24:28 GMT -5
I think that both Hitler and Stalin knew that eventually there would be a fight to the finish, with the winner take all.
The timing of it all was the thing, and Stalin gambled on it not happening until 1942/3. He refused to believe the Wests warnings that it was due any day, and he paid the price.
'Revenge' was just an excuse for the masses, Hitler wanted total power and who he had to kill made little difference.
JMO
SJ
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2013 19:04:14 GMT -5
Jude , Hitler had to have an issue so Jude it was , but the Germans wasted a tremendous asset in the the Jewish Community , they were good Germans , they were smart business people they had money or knew how to make money , they had internathional connections they were an asset to be had .
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Post by boxcar on Mar 28, 2013 19:05:08 GMT -5
It is probably a little know fact that German arms were being produced in Russia in the early 1930’s because the treaty of Versailles limited German arms and military manpower. I believe this fact came from the book “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich”. I am too lazy to look it up. It was only in the late 1930’s that Germany openly did their own arms production in defiance of the Versailles treaty.
Also remember when Hitler invaded Poland, he only took half of it. Russia was invited to take the other half of Poland. Up to this point they seemed to have a friendship pact.
The fact that Russia invaded Poland was covered up later in the war when Russia became our “Ally”.
When Germany finally did invade the Russian holdings, Stalin at first was hesitant to believe it.
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Post by Sir John on Mar 28, 2013 19:29:05 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_PactUp to June 1941, unions around the world opposed WW2 against Hitler. It was only after the nazi invasion of the USSR that they reversed their policy. Our unions refused to load ammunition etc destined for the 2nd AIF in North Africa. The Army was called in to 'resolve' the problem. SJ
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Post by Sir John on Mar 28, 2013 22:21:00 GMT -5
An anecdote from WW2.
My FIL was attached to the Polish 'Carpathian Brigade' when it was transferred to the Tobruk garrison in 1941.
Whilst living with them in the desert they used to listen to the BBC radio service, and on one occasion they were listening to a report on a battle in Russia.
The BBC said that "10,000 germans were killed" and the Poles cheered loudly. Then they said that "10,000 Russians were killed", and they cheered even louder!
SJ
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