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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2013 19:52:40 GMT -5
My various background studies of the demise of the German Sixth Army was that they were doomed almost from the start , the Russians had it all their way , their determined defense was all B/S when Japan Delcine to declare war on Russia that freed up 60 soviet divisions and a good many of these Divisions headed straight for Stalingrad , Stalin played the people and the allies like a fiddle , 90,000 Lansers surrendered at Stalingrad it is said only 6000 of these made it back home., had the shoe been on the other foot I doubt if any Russians would have made it home .
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Post by Sir John on May 1, 2013 20:24:11 GMT -5
At Stalingrad, all those with an SS uniform went straight to a gulag on Wrangel Island, off the northern coast of far east Siberia, at about 180 degrees east.
NONE came home.
And if any remember the clip of German troops marching through the Arc de Triomphe in Paris, that was the 6th Army.
SJ
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Post by Sir John on May 1, 2013 20:27:27 GMT -5
PS,
After WW2, all Russian POWs freed by the Allies were handed over to Stalin, they ALL went to the gulags.
SJ
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2013 20:32:18 GMT -5
Why was the sixth Army marching through Paris where were the French and the Empire ? .
Wasn't Wrangel Island a popular resort that Stalin used to send people for R&R
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Post by Sir John on May 1, 2013 22:46:04 GMT -5
"Why was the sixth Army marching through Paris where were the French and the Empire ? ."
The French were all working in a white sheet factory, and the Brits were on many small boats heading west after a short holiday on the Continent.
Unfortunately they did not have the 6th, 7th and 9th to save them so they went home.
Wrangel Island is the worlds biggest Polar Bear sanctuary and the cool temperate climate is ideal. For the other 364 days of the year it is under 15 feet of snow, very much like Vancouver.
SJ
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2013 23:02:05 GMT -5
Well there is NO doubt about it if the 6th 7th and 9th had been present they wouldn't have put up with all that nonsense , Germans marching through Paris , indeed .
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Post by Swampy on May 2, 2013 0:10:35 GMT -5
LOL!
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Post by Swampy on May 2, 2013 10:11:09 GMT -5
Hitler squandered his 500,000 men at Stalingrad. He should have followed the dictum of his idol, Frederick the Great, who said that he who defends everywhere defends nowhere.
If Der Fuhrer had realized that, he could have evacuated Stalingrad, pulled back another quarter million from Africa, evacuated Sicily, and then had perhaps a million men on the Russian front which he could stabilize and seek a negotiated peace.
It's a long shot, but it was the only chance he had.
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Post by mcnoch on May 2, 2013 11:03:58 GMT -5
Ahm, it is not that Stalingrad was attacked by the Russians and Germany was defending it...It was Germany's attempt of a right hock after the attack on Moscow had stalled. Stalin was able to block the Germans there so effectively because his spies in Berlin and Tokio told the Russian intelligence services the detailed plans before.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2013 11:16:31 GMT -5
The German right hock on Stalingrad was as open a plan that even the lowest Lanser knew what it was , it was Hitler vs Stalin and nothing more . Hitler was willing to sacrifice the 6th Army and any other Army he had to destroy old Joe .
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Post by Sir John on May 2, 2013 14:39:48 GMT -5
Some major factors that should have been obvious to hitler were that the USSR was just so damned BIG!
It had far more territory, far more people, far more resources. He should have seen that every mile he went east made his supply problems worse and laid him open to ever greater problems with weather and terrain. Even if he had taken the city, i doubt very much he could have held it for more than a year at the most.
General Winter and General Miles!
SJ
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Post by mcnoch on May 2, 2013 14:47:10 GMT -5
It was pure 18th century thinking, that you have the country if you took its capital, that the nation is lost when the sovereign is lost. The lesson, that this no longer is true was not fully understood during WWI, as only Belgium, Luxembourg and the Netherlands saw the occupation of their capitals, but also of their complete territory.
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Post by Swampy on May 2, 2013 15:12:50 GMT -5
Some major factors that should have been obvious to hitler were that the USSR was just so damned BIG! It had far more territory, far more people, far more resources. He should have seen that every mile he went east made his supply problems worse and laid him open to ever greater problems with weather and terrain. Even if he had taken the city, i doubt very much he could have held it for more than a year at the most. General Winter and General Miles! SJ I've always wanted to play a video or board game on charging into the endless masses of Russia. |
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Post by boxcar on May 2, 2013 17:23:23 GMT -5
I often wonder where Russia got all their gasoline. Russia was not noted for crude oil production at that time.
Yes, take the Russian distance into consideration and then recall a tank got only one to two a gallons a mile at best. And the Russian tanks usually outnumbered those of the Germans. That is a vast amount of gasoline.
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Post by Sir John on May 2, 2013 17:35:22 GMT -5
The entire allied WW2 effort was fought mostly with American oil from TX and LA.
About half of all the Lend Lease support, including oil, was transported on USSR flagged ships across the Pacific to Vladivostoc. (Under the very noses of our peace loving japanese brothers)
The other half went via Iran and Murmansk.
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