Post by jerryfmcompushaft on Aug 31, 2012 10:51:12 GMT -5
From my e-mail this morning - an interesting read
A pass-along!
Ed, Three years ago, I was invited by CIA to attend the release of several thousand classified documents from CIA/Air America to the Library at the University of Texas, in Dallas. I was asked to present my rescue story from Laos by Air America . The Air America pilot, Sam Jordan, who rescued Don Eaton and me also presented his view of the rescue. We had a panel of 5, two of the men were from Lima Site 85 and they covered this incident below. One was USAF retired and the other was Air America/CIA. There were about 5 hundred people in the auditorium and several hundred in smaller satellite rooms served by TV. We answered questions from the audience and just prior to the end of the event, a young Laotian man stood up and introduced himself in perfect English. “This is my dad next to me. He doesn’t speak English very well, but he worked at Lima Site 85 with the Americans. He came to the US and I was born here. He wants to thank all Americans for giving him his freedom and I thank you very much myself”. Needless to say, the crowd gave them a great round of applause.
Lima Site 85 was later overrun by NV troops and many men were killed. One of the panel members mentioned this story below and it was a first by a helo pilot who shot down a biplane. All the best, Don
LIMA Site 85True story. The declassified CIA records were found in the CAT/Air America collection at the University of Texas at Dallas Library last year. For most servicemen who served in Vietnam , the Freedom Bird was a . . civilian airliner which took them back to the land of the big PX at the end of their combat tour.
My favorite was a bit different sort of 'Freedom Bird'.
In mid-1967, as a junior Air Force Captain, I was detailed to 7th HQ in Saigon as an Air Technical Intelligence Liaison Officer. My job was to provide the air war the best technical intelligence support, in whatever area or discipline needed. Also I was to collect relevant technical intelligence, as came into my hands.
This was a tall order for a young USAF Captain. And this assignment provided much excitement.
Including the Tet offensive.
At that time, Operation Rolling Thunder [bombing military targets in North Vietnam was underway. The weather in NVN was often lousy, making it difficult to accurately find and strike assigned targets. So an effective radar control system was set up.
Part of the radar system was just inside the Lao's border, on the flat top of a remote, sheer-sided karst mountain.
The site could be reached by helicopter, or a tortuous trail winding up its near-vertical walls. For that reason, the site was thought to be quite easily defended.
The top of the mountain, was a relatively flat thirty acres supporting a tiny Hmong village, a small garrison of Thai and Meo mercenary guards, a helicopter pad and CIA's Air America Ops shack, plus the strategic radar site. The site was manned by 'sheep-dipped' USAF enlisted men wearing 'civies.'
Both the US and NVN paid lip service to the fiction that Laos was neutral and foreign military were not actually stationed there. In reality, we had a couple of hundred people operating several radar sites in Laos . And of course, the NVN had thousands of their troops on the Ho Chi Minh trail, closeby.
This particular site was called Lima [ Laos ] Site 85. But the fighter-bomber crews called it Channel 97 [the radar frequency] while other aircrews called it North Station, the furthest north radar facility.
Any point further North, was bad guy land.
Channel 97 was an old SAC bomb scoring radar unit. Within 100 miles, it could pin-point an aircraft to within a several meters of their fix. The strike force would fly out from the Site 85 a given distance/radial, and the radar operators would tell the strike leader when to release his bombs. It was surprisingly accurate. And it allowed the strikes to be run at night and in poor weather. Its capability was badly hurting the North Vietnamese war effort. So they decided to take out Lima Site 85 from the air.
Believe it or not, the NVNAF chose old Russian biplanes . . as its 'air strike bombers ! '
They were 1930's designed Antonov AN-2 general purpose workhorse biplanes with a single 1,000 hp radial engine and could carry a one ton payload. For their purposes, the AN-2 was not a bad choice.
Although, its biggest disadvantage was, like most biplanes.
It was SLOW.
The Russians had used the AN-2 for a multitude of missions, such as medevac, parachute training and crop dusting.
In fact, if you measure success of an aircraft design by the number produced and its years of production, the AN-2 was one of the most successful aircraft designs in aviation history.
The NVNAF fitted out these AN-2 'attack bombers' with a twelve shot 57 mm folding fin aerial rocket pod, under each lower wing. And twenty 250 mm mortar rounds set with aerial bomb fuses ready to drop into tubes mounted vertically the floor of the cargo bay. These were about to be dropped, simple bomb-bay doors were opened.
After opening them, the pilot could salvo his bomb load over an enemy target. It was a pretty good munitions load to take out a 'soft' undefended radar site.
Their attack mission was well-planned and equipped. And the bombing should have been successful.
But Murphy's Law prevailed against the Communists' airborne battle plans.
A three AN-2 biplane strike force was mounted. Two attack aircraft and one AN-2 biplane standing off as their command and radio relay. Although the enemy knew the radar site was on the top of the mountain, it was well-camouflaged. Also, the enemy did not realize it had 'anti-aircraft artillery.' And it also had available 'air to air interceptor force.'
Neither were we.
The AN-2 biplane strike force rolled in on their target area. However, they mistook Air America 's poorly-camouflaged Ops shack for the radar site.
And proceeded to ventilate the shack.
The anti-aircraft artillery 'force' turned out to be . . one individual. A Thai mercenary about five feet tall - and all balls - who understood what was happening instantly responded to the attack. The little guy ran out and stood directly in the center of an attacking AN-2's gunnery run . . as it sprayed its rockets and dropped its bombs.
He emptied his 27-round AK-47 clip into the dive bombing bi-plane . . causing its pilot to fatally crash.
The second attack biplane pilot then ' chickened out. ' Turned toward home.
The unplanned 'air defense interceptor' aircraft force turned out to be an unarmed Air America Huey sitting on the helicopter pad as its pilot and helicopter mechanic were both relaxing and drinking Cokes in the Ops shack, when holes began appearing in their ceiling.
They immediately ran full speed to their idling passenger-carrying utility helicopter.
As they leaped into it, they couldn't believe they were watching two ancient biplanes fleeing North.
The Huey's pilot, no slouch in the testicles department either, realized that his turbine-powered helicopter was . . faster than those biplanes !
So . .
the CIA jock did what any aggressive combat pilot might do. A-T-T-A-C-K !
A few miles across the North Vietnam border, the Huey overtook the trailing AN-2 bi-plane its gutsy pilot flew directly above the bi-plane then used the Huey's rotor downwash to [1] blow away its wing lift, in combo with [2] creating a down draft on the AN-2's upper wing's top surface.
As the AN-2 began sinking like a stone, its pilot pulled back on its elevator yoke . . which only further reduced the biplane's forward speed. Meanwhile, the Huey pilot's gutsy mechanic wasn't to be outdone. He reached out and grabbed the landing skid . . hauling himself partially into the wind blast.
One-handed, the helicopter mechanic emptied his AK-47 down into the biplane's cockpit, killing or wounding the pilot and copilot. The AN-2 quickly fell into a spiral then crashed into a karst mountainside.
It should come as no surprise that the Air America pilot and that helicopter mechanic found themselves in a heap of trouble with the U.S. State Department.
In spite of the striped-pants cookie-pushers' discomfort at [horrors !] an international incident with the Communists . . these guys were heroes to almost everybody.
And they accomplished a couple of firsts:
(1) the first and only combat shoot down of a biplane by a helicopter, and
(2) first known CIA air-to-air victory.
Lawrence E. Pense Colonel, USAF Ret.) (abridged]
A pass-along!
Ed, Three years ago, I was invited by CIA to attend the release of several thousand classified documents from CIA/Air America to the Library at the University of Texas, in Dallas. I was asked to present my rescue story from Laos by Air America . The Air America pilot, Sam Jordan, who rescued Don Eaton and me also presented his view of the rescue. We had a panel of 5, two of the men were from Lima Site 85 and they covered this incident below. One was USAF retired and the other was Air America/CIA. There were about 5 hundred people in the auditorium and several hundred in smaller satellite rooms served by TV. We answered questions from the audience and just prior to the end of the event, a young Laotian man stood up and introduced himself in perfect English. “This is my dad next to me. He doesn’t speak English very well, but he worked at Lima Site 85 with the Americans. He came to the US and I was born here. He wants to thank all Americans for giving him his freedom and I thank you very much myself”. Needless to say, the crowd gave them a great round of applause.
Lima Site 85 was later overrun by NV troops and many men were killed. One of the panel members mentioned this story below and it was a first by a helo pilot who shot down a biplane. All the best, Don
LIMA Site 85True story. The declassified CIA records were found in the CAT/Air America collection at the University of Texas at Dallas Library last year. For most servicemen who served in Vietnam , the Freedom Bird was a . . civilian airliner which took them back to the land of the big PX at the end of their combat tour.
My favorite was a bit different sort of 'Freedom Bird'.
In mid-1967, as a junior Air Force Captain, I was detailed to 7th HQ in Saigon as an Air Technical Intelligence Liaison Officer. My job was to provide the air war the best technical intelligence support, in whatever area or discipline needed. Also I was to collect relevant technical intelligence, as came into my hands.
This was a tall order for a young USAF Captain. And this assignment provided much excitement.
Including the Tet offensive.
At that time, Operation Rolling Thunder [bombing military targets in North Vietnam was underway. The weather in NVN was often lousy, making it difficult to accurately find and strike assigned targets. So an effective radar control system was set up.
Part of the radar system was just inside the Lao's border, on the flat top of a remote, sheer-sided karst mountain.
The site could be reached by helicopter, or a tortuous trail winding up its near-vertical walls. For that reason, the site was thought to be quite easily defended.
The top of the mountain, was a relatively flat thirty acres supporting a tiny Hmong village, a small garrison of Thai and Meo mercenary guards, a helicopter pad and CIA's Air America Ops shack, plus the strategic radar site. The site was manned by 'sheep-dipped' USAF enlisted men wearing 'civies.'
Both the US and NVN paid lip service to the fiction that Laos was neutral and foreign military were not actually stationed there. In reality, we had a couple of hundred people operating several radar sites in Laos . And of course, the NVN had thousands of their troops on the Ho Chi Minh trail, closeby.
This particular site was called Lima [ Laos ] Site 85. But the fighter-bomber crews called it Channel 97 [the radar frequency] while other aircrews called it North Station, the furthest north radar facility.
Any point further North, was bad guy land.
Channel 97 was an old SAC bomb scoring radar unit. Within 100 miles, it could pin-point an aircraft to within a several meters of their fix. The strike force would fly out from the Site 85 a given distance/radial, and the radar operators would tell the strike leader when to release his bombs. It was surprisingly accurate. And it allowed the strikes to be run at night and in poor weather. Its capability was badly hurting the North Vietnamese war effort. So they decided to take out Lima Site 85 from the air.
Believe it or not, the NVNAF chose old Russian biplanes . . as its 'air strike bombers ! '
They were 1930's designed Antonov AN-2 general purpose workhorse biplanes with a single 1,000 hp radial engine and could carry a one ton payload. For their purposes, the AN-2 was not a bad choice.
Although, its biggest disadvantage was, like most biplanes.
It was SLOW.
The Russians had used the AN-2 for a multitude of missions, such as medevac, parachute training and crop dusting.
In fact, if you measure success of an aircraft design by the number produced and its years of production, the AN-2 was one of the most successful aircraft designs in aviation history.
The NVNAF fitted out these AN-2 'attack bombers' with a twelve shot 57 mm folding fin aerial rocket pod, under each lower wing. And twenty 250 mm mortar rounds set with aerial bomb fuses ready to drop into tubes mounted vertically the floor of the cargo bay. These were about to be dropped, simple bomb-bay doors were opened.
After opening them, the pilot could salvo his bomb load over an enemy target. It was a pretty good munitions load to take out a 'soft' undefended radar site.
Their attack mission was well-planned and equipped. And the bombing should have been successful.
But Murphy's Law prevailed against the Communists' airborne battle plans.
A three AN-2 biplane strike force was mounted. Two attack aircraft and one AN-2 biplane standing off as their command and radio relay. Although the enemy knew the radar site was on the top of the mountain, it was well-camouflaged. Also, the enemy did not realize it had 'anti-aircraft artillery.' And it also had available 'air to air interceptor force.'
Neither were we.
The AN-2 biplane strike force rolled in on their target area. However, they mistook Air America 's poorly-camouflaged Ops shack for the radar site.
And proceeded to ventilate the shack.
The anti-aircraft artillery 'force' turned out to be . . one individual. A Thai mercenary about five feet tall - and all balls - who understood what was happening instantly responded to the attack. The little guy ran out and stood directly in the center of an attacking AN-2's gunnery run . . as it sprayed its rockets and dropped its bombs.
He emptied his 27-round AK-47 clip into the dive bombing bi-plane . . causing its pilot to fatally crash.
The second attack biplane pilot then ' chickened out. ' Turned toward home.
The unplanned 'air defense interceptor' aircraft force turned out to be an unarmed Air America Huey sitting on the helicopter pad as its pilot and helicopter mechanic were both relaxing and drinking Cokes in the Ops shack, when holes began appearing in their ceiling.
They immediately ran full speed to their idling passenger-carrying utility helicopter.
As they leaped into it, they couldn't believe they were watching two ancient biplanes fleeing North.
The Huey's pilot, no slouch in the testicles department either, realized that his turbine-powered helicopter was . . faster than those biplanes !
So . .
the CIA jock did what any aggressive combat pilot might do. A-T-T-A-C-K !
A few miles across the North Vietnam border, the Huey overtook the trailing AN-2 bi-plane its gutsy pilot flew directly above the bi-plane then used the Huey's rotor downwash to [1] blow away its wing lift, in combo with [2] creating a down draft on the AN-2's upper wing's top surface.
As the AN-2 began sinking like a stone, its pilot pulled back on its elevator yoke . . which only further reduced the biplane's forward speed. Meanwhile, the Huey pilot's gutsy mechanic wasn't to be outdone. He reached out and grabbed the landing skid . . hauling himself partially into the wind blast.
One-handed, the helicopter mechanic emptied his AK-47 down into the biplane's cockpit, killing or wounding the pilot and copilot. The AN-2 quickly fell into a spiral then crashed into a karst mountainside.
It should come as no surprise that the Air America pilot and that helicopter mechanic found themselves in a heap of trouble with the U.S. State Department.
In spite of the striped-pants cookie-pushers' discomfort at [horrors !] an international incident with the Communists . . these guys were heroes to almost everybody.
And they accomplished a couple of firsts:
(1) the first and only combat shoot down of a biplane by a helicopter, and
(2) first known CIA air-to-air victory.
Lawrence E. Pense Colonel, USAF Ret.) (abridged]
