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Post by Swampy on Oct 12, 2012 7:55:25 GMT -5
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Post by mcnoch on Oct 12, 2012 8:17:37 GMT -5
You want a sip of champagne?  |
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Post by jerryfmcompushaft on Oct 12, 2012 16:47:00 GMT -5
First Obama....now the EU? I do beleive the status of the prize is slipping somewhat....
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Post by mcnoch on Oct 12, 2012 17:39:37 GMT -5
60 years of peace is a very long time for Europe, so it is more deserved than the one given to many others how had just an idea, but failed to implement it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 18:43:04 GMT -5
60 years? Wasn't there a little disagreement in the Balkans late in last century or didn't that count? What about Czechoslovakia and Hungary? What about NATO allies participating in various wars around the world? Perhaps you've forgotten those?
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Post by mcnoch on Oct 13, 2012 5:04:51 GMT -5
No, but neither the wars in Yugolawia in the 90s nor the civil upraises in Czechoslovakia and Hungary against the communistic regimes happened when they were part of the EU, in fact Serbia still isn't a member of the EU. EU and NATO are not the same.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2012 8:02:50 GMT -5
Sorry, I thought you wrote peace in Europe without qualifications.
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Post by Swampy on Oct 13, 2012 10:35:49 GMT -5
OK, Matthias, I know the Old World had peace that it had not seen for just about all its history, but I'm not convinced it's meaningful to give a prize to an entire political bloc - individuals, yes, perhaps even small groups of individuals like UN peacekeepers, yes, but just about an entire continent???
What about Canada, then? We've never had a real civil war - one small insurrection in Manitoba, Canada would count as that - so why haven't we gotten a civil war? And what about Norad? Both the US and Canada kept the peace against the Soviets, so why not both countries?
And Australia should be next in line.
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Post by mcnoch on Oct 13, 2012 12:17:27 GMT -5
The price was/is not awarded for being peaceful, but for implementing processes and institutions that transfer conflicts that might have before resulted in military actions into diplomatic channels to find solutions. NATO and NORAD have prevented the outbreak of a hot war but were instruments of military deterrence during the Cold War not diplomacy. I agree, it is a bit counter-intuitive to give such prices to institutions instead of persons, but in many areas of your societies the concept of “individual leaders” was replaced by faceless institutions. So this is reflected in the reality of the nominations for this award. It is the same for the scientific noble prices, in the future we will see more and more scientific institutions, like CERN instead of individual scientists. Our world has become too complex to be changes by just one person alone.
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Post by Sir John on Oct 13, 2012 12:51:55 GMT -5
Swampy, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka_RebellionMy great grand-father, the one that bought our surname to Australia, was in Ballarat that day. No further info on his activities. Australia is a very peaceful place. SJ |
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Post by Swampy on Oct 13, 2012 14:39:50 GMT -5
I think it was nothing compared to the American Civil War, not to mention the European conflicts.
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Post by Sir John on Oct 13, 2012 14:56:59 GMT -5
That is why I put it there.
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Post by Swampy on Oct 13, 2012 15:11:53 GMT -5
I'm a Nobel-skeptic as well as a Euro-skeptic, which is why this award doesn't do anything for me. But peace is not my highest value; democracy and freedom are.
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Post by Swampy on Oct 14, 2012 21:12:52 GMT -5
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Post by mcnoch on Oct 15, 2012 1:07:23 GMT -5
No, it is clearly a very one sided (right-wing) opinion.
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