What If No US in WWII?

[Deleted]

Because SJ raises to the bait from MS so quickly and easily, I thought I'd present a scenario where no one can be wrong because nothing could ever be proven so your opinion is just as good as the next guy.

Suppose the US had not entered WWII at any time, just stayed out of it?

I can think of two possible scenarios. The first would have all of Europe, including the UK, under Germany's thumb. Each would be a "state" much like Bavaria, Upper Saxony etc., is today. This scenario presupposes that the Soviet Union either surrendered early or struck a deal with Germany early on.

The second scenario has all of Europe to include the UK AND Germany all as "states" of the Soviet Union, much like Estonia, Lithuania, Georgia, et al. I can see them steamrolling over Europe.

In either case, I can't think of any way the UK could've survived as an independent country without help.

What say you all (or all y'all as we say in Texas).

[jerryfmcompushaft]

I'll wait until the real historians respond as my reaction would be purely emotional with little reality considered...

[Deleted]

Jul 20, 2013 13:42:09 GMT -5 jerryfmcompushaft said:

I'll wait until the real historians respond as my reaction would be purely emotional with little reality considered...

You mean something like two other members of this forum? ;D

[Sir John]

One question first, where are Pearl Harbor and Barbarossa in this scenario?

[Sir John]

....and does the US support Britain with her industrial capacity?

[boxcar]

First of all WWII was just the stimulus FDR needed to get us out of the Great Depression. He would just as likely avoid WWII as he would kissing Eleanor.

FDR also used the war for political ends. He ran and won THREE terms as president. I still recall his famous line, “One does not change horses in the middle of the stream”.

At the time there was too much at stake for us not to join in the fight.
His biggest problem was that since WWI we had become a nation of isolationists. This had to be overcome. “All we have to fear is fear itself“. And Pearl Harbor was exactly what was required to bring us into the war.

[Deleted]

"One question first, where are Pearl Harbor and Barbarossa in this scenario?"

It's your scenario, take it where you want to go with it. For me, neither existed.

"....and does the US support Britain with her industrial capacity?"

Again, your choice. I would think that in my scenario, that the trade between the two countries would likely decrease significantly as the war progressed and Europe and the UK were heading for defeat.

[Deleted]

One must remember Hitler declared war on the U.S. he was gambling his good friends Japan would declare war on Russia which Japan did not do this freed up 90 soviet divisions that were sent to fight the Germans , America right up to 1941 was more pro German than not , we had our own Fuhrer , FDR , who was an Anglophile an admired Churchill , the Empire could not have survived without the U.S. but the U.S. could have survived without the Empire

[Sir John]

Very swell, I will assume that Pearl Harbor never took place, but Barbarossa did.

PH because the USA would have had some direct input into the scenario via negotiation, but Barbarossa was outside any US influence.

Thus Germany still cannot take Britain, simply because the RN Home Fleet cannot be removed from the table, and if the US supplies her then she survives, but only as passive threat. She cannot invade the Continent or threaten Germany in any meaningful way by land. The RAF can still mount 1000 Bomber raids, as she did a full year before the USAAF arrived in force.

North Africa would possibly be saved, as the Glorious 9th was on its way to Tripoli after el Alamein, if required.

If the peace loving japanese brothers start the Pacific War by staying well away from US interests, then they can head south unimpeded, at least until Milne Bay and Kokoda.

They CANNOT hope to mount a successful invasion of the Australian mainland, it is simply too big and too barren. There were nil roads and railways in the top half in those days.

Germany then has to face Russia unimpeded, but still looking for oil, her Achilles Heel. Russian can survive without Lend Lease, but with much strain, with her factories already shifted to the Urals, and her armies the same, she overstretches the German supply chain. In due course she turns the tide and heads west. They eventually come to a pact on the old German border.

OR .........Russia stops at the Channel!.

Germany then looks to Argentina as an ally, and builds her forces in that country. In due course she heads north. She eventually arrives at the Rio Grande and mounts a threat to the USA.

The export trade of the USA has ground to a halt, as her customers come under the German jackboot. Her factories close one by one, and her economy weakens badly.

Germany has the economies of Europe, Sth America and possibly Africa to support her war machine with goods and slave labour.

Germany and Japan divide the world in two, and eventually fight it out. Germany wins!



JMO



SJ

[Deleted]

Had the U.S. remained neutral the Empire would have become another hermit Kingdom , the 1000 bombers and the grand fleet needed petro to function which there was none in old Blighty nor was there much in the way in food production so where would it go from there ? .

[Deleted]

The Americans spent 8 years kicking the Royals out , today the Royal exists because of America , not just once but twice .

[Swampy]

Denny, the Soviet Union could NOT have gone all the way to Britain. In fact, without American help, they would never have taken back all that territory - as Khruschev said, think how they could have gone all the way to Berlin without American trucks. And, of course, American food supplies, American-made Red Army uniforms, American aviation fuel, American industrial equipment ... the list goes on.

So, without the US, the Nazis would have won.

[dontom]

Jul 21, 2013 1:59:13 GMT -5 Swampy said:

So, without the US, the Nazis would have won.

I just wonder what the world would be like today if they did win.

-Don- SSF, CA

[Swampy]

Jul 21, 2013 6:19:32 GMT -5 dontom said:

Jul 21, 2013 1:59:13 GMT -5 Swampy said:

So, without the US, the Nazis would have won.

I just wonder what the world would be like today if they did win.

-Don- SSF, CA

Read Harry Turtledove's "In the presence of enemy mine".

[Deleted]

Whether or not the U.S. had entered the European war the Russians would have gotten just about as far as they did after the war . Germany would have had to make a truce with Russia and the Empire would have survived just survive .