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Post by Sir John on Oct 6, 2013 2:18:46 GMT -5
You miss the point, all they needed to do was get the plane into the air and pointed in the right direction.
NOT at the aircraft carriers, but the TROOP SHIPS! And ALL AT ONCE, not 100 at a time.
...and most of the Okinawa pilots were about the same as the ones waiting on Kyushu.
SJ
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Post by Swampy on Oct 6, 2013 9:16:20 GMT -5
...and most of the Okinawa pilots were about the same as the ones waiting on Kyushu. Exactly, and, if the Okinawan kamikazes failed, the Kyushun pilots would have failed.
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Post by Sir John on Oct 6, 2013 14:10:15 GMT -5
Failed?
Those 'untrained' pilots killed 6000 US sailors! And sunk dozens of ships. Imagine of they had ALL gone out on the one day, and went for the TROOP SHIPS instead? No warning, just an over powering wave of 1000s of planes aiming not for the carriers, but the transports.
No time to gather the war ships around the transports, left miles away and useless, expecting the same tactics as at Okinawa.
SJ
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Post by hornet32 on Oct 6, 2013 15:28:46 GMT -5
Okinawa was the first battle where Navy casualties were higher than the Army and Marines .
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Post by Sir John on Oct 6, 2013 16:52:56 GMT -5
The big 3 landings were the catalyst for Truman's decision to drop the bombs.
Blind Freddy could see that 'Olympic' was going to be 10 times as bad, and could well have been 100 times. Who would take that gamble?
Just imagine, late 1946 and the bloodbath finally ends, mothers all over America are grieving their lost sons. Word gets out that Truman had the means to stop it but did not.
The mothers march on the White House, drag Truman out onto the lawn, and LYNCH him!
SJ
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Post by Swampy on Oct 6, 2013 17:12:16 GMT -5
Failed? Those 'untrained' pilots killed 6000 US sailors! And sunk dozens of ships. Imagine of they had ALL gone out on the one day, and went for the TROOP SHIPS instead? No warning, just an over powering wave of 1000s of planes aiming not for the carriers, but the transports. No time to gather the war ships around the transports, left miles away and useless, expecting the same tactics as at Okinawa. SJ Where did you get the figure of 6,000 sailors killed? From the Wikipaedia entry,
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Post by Sir John on Oct 6, 2013 18:03:28 GMT -5
From your link,
"4,907 Navy, 4,675 Army, and 2,938 Marine"
I read 6000 a long time ago, so 5000 is a bit less. Shoot me!
SJ
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Post by Swampy on Oct 6, 2013 18:17:10 GMT -5
Marines are sailors, so it's actually 7,000. The point still remains, however, that those were acceptable losses for the victory at Okinawa.
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Post by Sir John on Oct 6, 2013 18:21:03 GMT -5
"those were acceptable losses for the victory at Okinawa."
"acceptable"?
The Americans had NO choice in the matter, that is what it cost, acceptable or not!
SJ
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Post by hornet32 on Oct 6, 2013 18:39:31 GMT -5
Since the bomb had not been used / tested except in the New Mexico desert Truman was not sure what he had but Stalin did , as history points out Truman was no Monty or Percy .
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Post by Swampy on Oct 6, 2013 18:53:01 GMT -5
Since the bomb had not been used / tested except in the New Mexico desert Truman was not sure what he had but Stalin did , as history points out Truman was no Monty or Percy . That's a good thing, I presume.
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Post by Sir John on Oct 6, 2013 19:17:18 GMT -5
When Truman finally got his 'Manhattan' briefing, they would have told him that the 'Little Boy' was a certainty to work, and that the 'Fat Man' needed a test. That happened on 16th July. Stalin got his update that very day, so they say! He certainly knew it at Potsdam, when Truman informed him.
Truman knew the cost of Okinawa by the time he gave the "GO" order!
SJ
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Post by griffin on Oct 8, 2013 23:24:32 GMT -5
Those pilots had zilch training, and, if their compatriots couldn't stop the landings at Okinawa, they wouldn't have stopped it at Kyushu. With "zilch training" caused the following. The total of US Navy losses in the Fifth Fleet was 36 ships and landing craft sunk, 368 damaged. nearly 5,000 sailors were killed, and almost that many wounded. Among the vessels badly damaged were flattops Franklin CV-13, Bunker Hill CV-17, Enterprise CV-6, Wasp CV-18, hospital ship Comfort AH-6, destroyer Laffey DD-724, and ill-fated cruiser Indianapolis CA-35. Source US Naval Institute. Considering that the distance and time to attack allied vessels from Japan would be significantly reduced from that of Okinawa, this could have caused even greater losses on both sides. Especially hard hit were the destroyers that were involved in radar picket duty. With suicide attacks would have included suicide attacks using small boats, and quite likely Japanese submarines. As the invasion force moved close to discharge landing craft they could also have come in range of artillery. There could also have seen aircraft squadrons in China finally coming in range. Paul
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Post by Swampy on Oct 9, 2013 1:14:42 GMT -5
True, Paul, but the point remains that the US Navy would have been able to sustain the damage from those planes, especially since the Japanese pilots wouldn't have had much training.
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Post by jerryfmcompushaft on Oct 9, 2013 8:52:49 GMT -5
True, Paul, but the point remains that the US Navy would have been able to sustain the damage from those planes, especially since the Japanese pilots wouldn't have had much training. The "pilots" who brought down the World Trade Center didn't have much training either. Doesn't take much to crash an airplane into something valuable....
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