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Post by bluejay77 on Nov 25, 2012 2:38:50 GMT -5
There was there a big, big state lottery in Moscow.
First prize: a Russian made Moskvitsh car.
Second prize: Two Moskvitsh cars.
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Post by Swampy on Nov 25, 2012 2:48:16 GMT -5
I'd be curious to know the Finnish view on the Cold War - as well as WWII.
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Post by bluejay77 on Nov 25, 2012 2:55:35 GMT -5
I'd be curious to know the Finnish view on the Cold War - as well as WWII. In the last Sunday, exactly a week ago, I chatted on the mobile phone with a friend of mine, a Lieutenant Colonel who works for the Signal Troops. He said that when Finland joined the European Union for about two decades ago, Finland was offered a possibility to join the NATO. Leftist politicians intentionally watered down the political move. He said that this country would be far better off if we had accepted the offer to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. I agreed with him. |
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Post by bluejay77 on Nov 25, 2012 3:07:59 GMT -5
I'd be curious to know the Finnish view on the Cold War - as well as WWII. In WWII, the Russkies in particular feared the Finnish ski borne guerrillas, clothed totally in white; they were called the "belaya smert", the White Death. I think that in the Wikipedia there is there a video on these white clad guerrillas, the video is called White Ghosts. Another note. In WWII there were a large number of individuals who were two things: 1) They were killed in action. 2) They were ex-Communists who had rejected their ideology in order to be patriotic. President Risto Ryti was mainly responsible for taking Finland into the wrong side in the WWII. Ryti has been told to have said: "Germany is the only state in the modern (ie. 1930-1940) world which can substantially weaken the USSR. If in this process, Nazi Germany itself will be weakened, then that is not a bad outcome." |
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Post by Swampy on Nov 25, 2012 10:58:11 GMT -5
The Finns had fought a border war with the SU, so they would reasonably side with the Germans. Furthermore, Sweden has to side with the Nazis, or face occupation, so the Finns were probably in no better position.
That said, perhaps, after the war, the Finns should have sided with us and joined Nato, because, just as the SU would not have invaded bordering Turkey, they probably would not have invaded Finland to stop it from joining us.
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Post by bluejay77 on Dec 2, 2012 1:54:50 GMT -5
There was a truce in 1944, and an official peace treaty was ratified in Moscow in 1949 if I recall correctly.
After 1944, Finland was not really occupied, but was de facto highly controlled by the USSR and their Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti. After that time, pro-Russian leftist politicians always had disproportionately much influence in Finnish politics. Much enough to water down the move to join the NATO, as I have said.
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Post by Swampy on Dec 2, 2012 1:57:10 GMT -5
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Post by bluejay77 on Dec 2, 2012 2:10:25 GMT -5
Russia probably could not do anything about it -- except to complain very loudly. Finland joining the NATO would be very good for both parties; one just should think about what to say to the Russians so that they would not get exceedingly excited about the move. One piece of advice for the NATO heads about this business: Watch out for rotten politicians. |
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Post by Sir John on Dec 2, 2012 2:42:25 GMT -5
NATO is way past it's 'use by date'.
The Warsaw Treaty died an natural death due to its lack of purpose and goals. So should NATO.
JMO
SJ
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Post by Swampy on Dec 2, 2012 2:49:15 GMT -5
It's needed to fend off Russia - believe me, John, if I could do away with a government bureaucracy, I would.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2012 9:21:18 GMT -5
Can you imagine Russian and the US putting aside political and philosophical differences and uniting as allies to police the world, like Swampy always wants the US to do alone? AWESOME!
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Post by Swampy on Dec 2, 2012 10:41:17 GMT -5
Can you imagine Russian and the US putting aside political and philosophical differences and uniting as allies to police the world, like Swampy always wants the US to do alone? AWESOME! If there's an alien invasion, the Russians and Americans would get together as quickly as the Arabs and the Jews. |
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Post by Swampy on Dec 4, 2012 12:07:41 GMT -5
Can you imagine Russian and the US putting aside political and philosophical differences and uniting as allies to police the world, like Swampy always wants the US to do alone? AWESOME! I don't want the US to police the world alone, because I think its allies should pitch in; but I do think the US should take the lead, because only it can. Anyway, over 70% of Finns oppose Nato membership - we should do a better selling job. Bluejay, any thoughts? |
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Post by bluejay77 on Dec 4, 2012 14:43:48 GMT -5
Can you imagine Russian and the US putting aside political and philosophical differences and uniting as allies to police the world, like Swampy always wants the US to do alone? AWESOME! I don't want the US to police the world alone, because I think its allies should pitch in; but I do think the US should take the lead, because only it can. Anyway, over 70% of Finns oppose Nato membership - we should do a better selling job. Bluejay, any thoughts? I'm almost certain that that "research result" has been "corrected", i. e. manipulated, by the researcher. That kind of thing happens in Finland, I know that. If you ask a common Finnish man on the street, the answer almost always to my experience will be: Join the NATO, for security reasons. But good selling work would always help, for sure. |
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Post by Sir John on Dec 4, 2012 17:07:23 GMT -5
A loose (European) treaty situation may be of some use in international relations, but Russia is no longer a threat.
She could not sustain any real operations given her run down military, and thus NATO is superfluous.
JMO
SJ
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