Obama is dissing Israel.

[Swampy]

He's no friend of Israel, that's for sure. And his choice of Hagel doesn't inspire confidence either.

[Deleted]

Personally, I don't care if he is a "friend" to Israel or not. For too many years Israel has depended on the US to guarantee their survival. At some point in time, they are going to have to go it on their own. They should be treated no differently than GB, Australia, Germany, etc. They have proved capable of defending themselves thus far. We need to stay our of their business and let the situation in that region of the world take care of itself. If they fall, they fall. So be it. Then we can go in and turn that portion of the world - from Pakistan to the west coast of Africa - into glass. The modern Crusade, fought with nukes instead of swords and battle axes. WHO-AH!!!!

As far as Hagel is concerned, he is a combat vet, knowlegable in the ways of the military. I'm willing to give him the benefit of any doubts, of which I have none currently.

[Sir John]

It will not make a huge difference to Israel.

Israel will do 'whatever it takes' to defend herself, and if needed, destroy her enemies. In fact with no confidence in the USA, it makes it all much more likely.

If I was Netanyahu, I would 'leak' the Israeli target list.

JMO



SJ

[Swampy]

Jan 17, 2013 17:56:15 GMT -5 Sir John said:

If I was Netanyahu, I would 'leak' the Israeli target list.

I like that. Hell, if I was Netanyahu, I'd hit several of those targets.

[mcnoch]

That is now getting below pub-talk level and a very naive way of thinking what could be reached by using nuclear weapons. Israel will use nuclear weapons only as last defence weapon because they know that in all other cases it would trigger massiv repudiation and progroms against Jews around the world, maybe excluding the USA and some other countries. For some ten- or hundretthausends (if mood in Russia is very negative too) this would mean eviction, dispossession or even death. And that for nothing in return, because the biggest threat to Israel are not some governments or military equipment, but the hate in the hearts of the people around it. Additionally the fall-out of nuclear weapons used in this area will affect India and other East-Asia countries seriously and later the whole world. This lesson is very well understood everywhere and will add to the negative outcome for Israel.

[Sir John]

"That is now getting below pub-talk level and a very naive way of thinking what could be reached by using nuclear weapons."


DISAGREE!, Israel WILL use her nukes if one goes off over Tel Aviv, and also if it seems that the Israelis will be walking backwards into the Mediterranean Sea. Her UNofficial motto is 'NEVER AGAIN', and her tormentors will pay the price. I am sure that is understandable to anyone.




"Israel will use nuclear weapons only as last defence weapon"


Of course. I did NOT suggest otherwise.

As I am sure you know, Israel has taken delivery of her 4th 'Dolphin' sub, with another 2 to come. ALL of these have normal torpedo tubes, and also tubes for cruise missiles. Israel would not be buying these sub systems to deliver a torpedo OR a cruise missile with 500 lbs of TNT, it would be a silly waste of money. They have ONE purpose and that is to put a nuke on a city or target they cannot certainly reach otherwise.

I, and Israel, are well aware of the fallout problem, and an air-burst does NOT create fallout. I am sure they will make an exception for Mecca.


...and if the world wishes to create another 'Final solution' as revenge then that is on their shoulders, they will be no better than the last lot that tried it!.


SJ

[mcnoch]

SJ, sorry, I was not refering to your message, but had some messages in mind that were posted at other places here and since then disapeared (for good resasons).

The nuclear weapons of Israel have their value in their deterrence for another open war, but they are no weapon to be used in attacking e.g. Iran over its nuclear program. Such attacks would use conventional weapons.

[Sir John]

A personal view,

Israel has had to deal with quite a few US Presidents since 1948, some have been very supportive and others not.

I am sure those Presidents knew the REAL situation in the Middle East, and knew the consequences of a bad decision by any party to the conflict.

I have no real idea of the influence the so called 'Israel Lobby' has, but I am inclined to think it is not as great as many claim. Also that American Jews are generally Democrat voters.

The next 4 years will be very interesting.

....and in my view, Israel does NOT have the conventional capacity to remove the Iranian nuclear threat.



SJ


(PS, without the help/support of muslim countries on the way to Iran that is)

[Deleted]

"That is now getting below pub-talk level"

FINALLY!!!!!!

And to add further, when the day comes that I can't express my opinion, whether anyone likes it or not, that's the day America dies.