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Post by Swampy on Jul 23, 2013 0:14:52 GMT -5
If the Luftwaffe had continued the attacks on the airfields, the RAF would have had to withdraw, but so what? As events showed, they only needed a few days to get their airfields in order, and, in any case, even from further north, they could fly to the coasts of Dover to wreak havoc on the Luftwaffe AND the barges.
And the Germans only had barges, not proper landing craft, because they just weren't prepared for an invasion of this kind. And, last, but certainly not least, the Royal Navy was still around, which would have had a field day in the narrow English Channel.
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Post by Sir John on Jul 23, 2013 1:00:58 GMT -5
I cannot find the file but, the RN home Fleet had available during the course of the BoB. (Scapa Flow and Scott8ish ports.)
1x Aircraft Carrier.
12x Battleships and Battlecruisers.
60x Cruisers
80x Destroyers and Frigates
plus subs and MTBs
That does not include what they could have taken from Gibraltar and the Mediterranean Fleet, and possibly even the Atlantic Convoys escorts.
Hopeless!
SJ
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Post by Sir John on Jul 23, 2013 1:02:02 GMT -5
...and even an old tramp steamer could swamp most of the barges with their bow-waves.
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Post by Sir John on Jul 23, 2013 1:14:34 GMT -5
and the Kreigsmarine had a grand total of TEN destroyers to assist 'SeaLion' in September 1940.
They lost the other 10 at Narvik.
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Post by Sir John on Jul 26, 2013 0:05:20 GMT -5
RN Home Fleet - September 1940.
Available within 24 hours (some immediately from local ports)
1x Aircraft Carrier
5x Battleships and Battlecruisers.
18x Cruisers
80x Destroyers
60x Frigates, Corvettes, Minesweepers, MTBs, and subs.
SJ
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Post by Swampy on Jul 26, 2013 0:29:13 GMT -5
The concern, of course, is if the German paratroopers could have taken the airfields, which would have let the Luftwaffe ferry in troops and equipment. I don't see that, because the British army could just have lobbed artillery shells onto the landing areas, but that's still a concern (for armchair discussions anyway).
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Post by Sir John on Jul 26, 2013 1:41:37 GMT -5
Swampy,
The Luftwaffe had about 500x Ju52s at best. They could only take about 20 paratroopers on each trip, and no matter what the RAF would have shot them out of the sky. The RAF Fighter Command would have made one way trips from Scotland if need be. But those Ju52s would have been shot down.
Many or most of the likely open field suitable for gliders had old buses and truck bodies on them, and also herds of cows and sheep, which you can imagine a bunch of German paratroopers trying to herd off the paddock. Many also had large trunks of wood embedded in so they would have slowed up the advance.
The 10,000 Paratroopers would have had to live and fight out of their back-packs, until they ran out of ammo and food. They would not have been re-supplied. And remember, by mid September those 300,000 men from Dunkirk were patched up, rested, and re-armed with rifles and Brens etc, and ready to pay back the Bosch.
NONE would have lasted a week before death or captivity.
SJ
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2013 20:41:44 GMT -5
Not only did the BEF get their bloody arse kicked they have the French to thank that they got out of Dunkirk alive , the French for one brief moment actually did make a stand that slowed the Germans down just long enough , but it pretty much the blind leading the blind . And the two stooges together got the low Countries over run as the Germans had to go through them to get to the Empire .
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Post by Swampy on Jul 26, 2013 23:03:11 GMT -5
Not only did the BEF get their bloody arse kicked they have the French to thank that they got out of Dunkirk alive , the French for one brief moment actually did make a stand that slowed the Germans down just long enough , but it pretty much the blind leading the blind . And the two stooges together got the low Countries over run as the Germans had to go through them to get to the Empire . But they eventually got their act together.
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Post by Sir John on Jul 27, 2013 0:23:33 GMT -5
The soldiers lifted off the Dunkirk beach included about 30,000 french soldiers.
I think they then requested that they be returned to France near the Normandy area (Cherbourg?) , and this they did. They duly went into captivity anyway along with many of the others in France.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2013 6:14:01 GMT -5
Some Le Franc accused the Empire for deserting them .
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Post by Swampy on Jul 27, 2013 10:36:35 GMT -5
Some Le Franc accused the Empire for deserting them . Who? Even De Gaulle had to leave.
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Post by Sir John on Jul 27, 2013 14:31:45 GMT -5
He lead the "westward advance" of the French forces, and was in Britain well before the Dunkirk debacle.
Great foresight on his part!
SJ
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2013 16:11:10 GMT -5
De Gaulle showed up in the Empire and announced he was the leader of the Free French movement no one had ever heard of him didn't know what to make of him an at the time there was no free French movement .
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Post by Sir John on Jul 27, 2013 18:02:49 GMT -5
De Gaulle was a PITA, but it would have been impossible to ignore the only man with any claim to a effective French leadership.
He was far more a politician than a soldier.
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