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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 11:45:20 GMT -5
Battle of Britain , Never have so few done so much for so many said Churchill , however do the facts figure or is this more of wind bag Winnie's B/S ,July - October 1940 the Empire loses were 1611 aircraft Germany's loses were 1652 a difference of 41 aircraft with the Germans being handicap by time over target .
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Post by jerryfmcompushaft on Jul 19, 2013 12:57:35 GMT -5
Battle of Britain , Never have so few done so much for so many said Churchill , however do the facts figure or is this more of wind bag Winnie's B/S ,July - October 1940 the Empire loses were 1611 aircraft Germany's loses were 1652 a difference of 41 aircraft with the Germans being handicap by time over target . Don't understand. Do you mean it took longer to fly from Germany to England than it took to fly from England to Germany??  |
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Post by Sir John on Jul 19, 2013 14:43:17 GMT -5
Shit-stiring again!
The Luftwaffe failed completely in their objectives in 1940.
The RAF started the Battle well outnumbered in planes and pilots, and finished it with more planes and pilots than the Luftwaffe, and also basic victory figures were in favour of the RAF.
WIKIPEDIA,
Attrition statistics
See also: Confirmation and overclaiming of aerial victories
Overall, by 2 November, the RAF fielded 1,796 pilots, an increase of over 40% from July 1940's count of 1,259 pilots.[188] Based on German sources (from a Luftwaffe intelligence officer Otto Bechtle attached to KG 2 in February 1944) translated by the Air Historical Branch, Stephen Bungay asserts German fighter and bomber "strength" declined without recovery, and that from August – December 1940, the German fighter and bomber strength declined by 30 and 25 percent.[8] In contrast, Williamson Murray, asserts (using translations by the Air Historical Branch) that 1,380 German bombers were on strength on 29 June 1940,[6][189] 1,420 bombers on 28 September,[190] 1,423 level bombers on 2 November[191] and 1,393 bombers on 30 November 1940.[191] In July – September the number of Luftwaffe pilots available fell by 136, but the number of operational pilots had shrunk by 171 by September. The training organisation of the Luftwaffe was failing to replace losses. German fighter pilots, in contrast to popular perception, were not afforded training or rest rotations unlike their British counterparts.[192] The first week of September accounted for 25 per cent of the Fighter Command, and 24 per cent of the Luftwaffe's overall losses.[193] Between the dates 26 August – 6 September, on only one day (1 September) did the Germans destroy more aircraft than they lost. Losses were 325 German and 248 British.[194]
Luftwaffe losses for August numbered 774 aircraft to all causes, representing 18.5 per cent of all combat aircraft at the beginning of the month.[195] Fighter Command's losses in August were 426 fighters destroyed,[196] amounting to 40 per cent of 1,061 fighters available on 3 August.[197] In addition, 99 bombers and 27 other types were destroyed between 1 and 29 August.[198]
From July to September, the Luftwaffe's loss records indicate the loss of 1,636 aircraft, 1,184 to enemy action.[189] This represented 47 per cent of the initial strength of single-engined fighters, 66 per cent of twin-engined fighters, and 45 per cent of bombers. This indicates the Germans were running out of aircrews as well as aircraft.[199]
Throughout the battle, the Germans greatly underestimated the size of the RAF and the scale of British aircraft production. Across the Channel, the Air Intelligence division of the Air Ministry consistently overestimated the size of the German air enemy and the productive capacity of the German aviation industry. As the battle was fought, both sides exaggerated the losses inflicted on the other by an equally large margin. However, the intelligence picture formed before the battle encouraged the German Air Force to believe that such losses pushed Fighter Command to the very edge of defeat, while the exaggerated picture of German air strength persuaded the RAF that the threat it faced was larger and more dangerous than was the case.[200] This led the British to the conclusion that another fortnight of attacks on airfields might force Fighter Command to withdraw their squadrons from the south of England. The German misconception, on the other hand, encouraged first complacency, then strategic misjudgement. The shift of targets from air bases to industry and communications was taken because it was assumed that Fighter Command was virtually eliminated.[201]
Between the 24 August and 4 September, German serviceability rates, which were acceptable at Stuka units, were running at 75% with Bf 109s, 70% with bombers and 65% with Bf 110s, indicating a shortage of spare parts. All units were well below established strength. The attrition was beginning to affect the fighters in particular."[202] By 14 September, the Luftwaffe's Bf 109 Geschwader possessed only 67 percent of their operational crews against authorised aircraft. For Bf 110 units it was 46 per cent; and for bombers it was 59 per cent. A week later the figures had dropped to 64 per cent, 52 per cent and 52 per cent.[199] Serviceability rates in Fighter Command's fighter squadrons, between the 24 August and 7 September, were listed as: 64.8% on 24 August; 64.7% on 31 August and 64.25% on 7 September 1940.[197]
Due to the failure of the Luftwaffe to establish air supremacy, a conference assembled on 14 September at Hitler's headquarters. Hitler concluded that air superiority had not yet been established and "promised to review the situation on 17 September for possible landings on 27 September or 8 October. Three days later, when the evidence was clear that the German Air Force had greatly exaggerated the extent of their successes against the RAF, Hitler postponed Sealion indefinitely."[203]
LEST WE FORGET.
"THIS, was their finest hour"
SJ
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 15:08:51 GMT -5
Jerry during the Battle for Britain THE EMPIRES PLANES FLEW FROM ENGLAND TO ENGLAND German planes flew from France too England their fighter the PF-109 had about 20-30 min over Britain before having to return to France .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 15:16:14 GMT -5
Sealion was all B/S the Germans never intended to do a sea born invasion of the Empire as far as the Air War was concerned just a bit of side show and the Stuka max speed 235 mph never stood a chance .
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Post by Sir John on Jul 19, 2013 15:34:50 GMT -5
The tactical advantages of the BoB for the RAF are well known.
Hawkers put 1000 'Hurricanes' back into action after repair, and Lord knows how many Supermarine fixed. Any Luftwaffe pilot who bailed out became a POW, and the RAF pilot flew again that same day quite often.
A Spitfire could go into battle 5 times a day and often did at the peak, but the Luftwaffe could only make the trip maybe twice a day.
'SEALION' was NOT bullshit, it was not 'doable' for a variety of reasons, and was thus scrapped. The RN Home Fleet saw to that.
....and as an aside, the BoB was followed by "The Blitz", which for over 6 months killed 40,000+ "innocent civilians" in mainly night raids.
That is about 15x WTC equivalents over that time frame.
SJ
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Post by Sir John on Jul 19, 2013 15:37:08 GMT -5
PS,
The first 'Blitz' air raid on London took place the day my wife was born, 25th August 1940.
SJ
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Post by Sir John on Jul 19, 2013 15:40:42 GMT -5
Bf 109!!!
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Post by jerryfmcompushaft on Jul 19, 2013 19:42:56 GMT -5
Jerry during the Battle for Britain THE EMPIRES PLANES FLEW FROM ENGLAND TO ENGLAND German planes flew from France too England their fighter the PF-109 had about 20-30 min over Britain before having to return to France . Then, by your logic, that would have exposed them for only 20-30 minutes and given the Brits only 20-3- minutes to shoot them down. With such a small window, sounds like they did a pretty good job. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 20:05:32 GMT -5
Don't believe the Empires B/S the Germans gave the Empire all they wanted it was a near thing and the only thing the Empire had to Cheer about , nothing else was going the Empires way , there was the Balkans , Crete , Malaysia and Singapore , the intervention of the U.S. is what saved the Empire and nothing else .
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Post by Sir John on Jul 19, 2013 20:21:32 GMT -5
I think the BoB was well before all that, and onl after Dunkirk.
...and the Yanks did not turn up until Round 15, told you that before. First time you took on Rommel, he gave you a hiding!
Then in May 1943, FORTY THREE, the USAAF turned up, with a brass band!
SJ
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Post by Sir John on Jul 19, 2013 20:32:09 GMT -5
...anyway, it was Rosie (the riveter, not that other one) that did the job. not John Wayne.
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Post by Sir John on Jul 19, 2013 20:37:24 GMT -5
That worn out old copy of "How we won the War" of yours is just about had it, the pages are all stuck together!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 20:43:39 GMT -5
The Loyal Royal subjects were reduced to dumpster diving and eating mystery meat before the Yanks came to the rescue , again .
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Post by Sir John on Jul 20, 2013 0:53:32 GMT -5
"mystery meat"
SPAM?
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