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Post by Sir John on Sept 7, 2013 23:30:08 GMT -5
www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htmA fascinating read on the realities of the Pacific (and European)War. I especially like to hypothetical scenario of a total loss at Midway for the USN. SJ
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Post by Swampy on Sept 7, 2013 23:45:54 GMT -5
I thought Japan lost because Don gave Ho Chi Minh a heart attack.
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Post by hornet32 on Sept 8, 2013 6:21:47 GMT -5
The Battle of Midway could come under the heading of military wonders ,the Japanese were ambushed . The Americans were hoping the Japanese would make a mistake , they did .
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Post by Swampy on Sept 8, 2013 9:45:57 GMT -5
The Japanese lost all four carriers, but the Americans only lost the Yorktown, which was hit twice by dive bombers but didn't sink, until a Japanese sub torpedoed it. That indicates the Japanese were already falling behind in proficiency, and it also indicates submarine warfare would have been far more effective against ships than planes, though planes were of course critical.
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Post by Sir John on Sept 8, 2013 15:07:31 GMT -5
The idea that at Midway the USN could have lost all 3 carriers and the IJN none is fascinating.
It only adds 6 months to the Pacific War.
Reinforces the fact that WW2 was won in the factories, shipyards, and oilfields of America.
....and NOT by MacArthur!
SJ
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Post by Swampy on Sept 8, 2013 15:12:45 GMT -5
I'd still give him some credit, especially for his island-hopping campaign which bypassed the enemy strongholds.
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Post by Sir John on Sept 8, 2013 20:09:20 GMT -5
Does that mean I have to say something nice about MacArthur?
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Post by Swampy on Sept 8, 2013 22:12:58 GMT -5
What do you have against him?
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Post by Sir John on Sept 8, 2013 22:43:32 GMT -5
Not a popular bloke over here, haven't you been reading my posts?
SJ
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Post by Swampy on Sept 8, 2013 23:33:38 GMT -5
Yes, I have, but you haven't given the WHY.
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Post by mcnoch on Sept 9, 2013 0:55:08 GMT -5
From my understanding of SJ's posts here over the last months I got the impression that MacArthur is seen in Australia as somebody who was willing to fight until the last Australian or so.
I always thought that Nimitz had developed the island-hopping campaign, while MacArthur was not island hopping, but fighting for every inch of New Guinea.
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Post by Sir John on Sept 9, 2013 1:01:11 GMT -5
Swampy,
MacArthur is considered by most amateur military historians here to be an arrogant, over ambitious man who never acknowledged the contribution of the Australian forces, who greatly outnumbered his own ground troops until well into 1944.
He criticized the most respected units in our Army, whilst NEVER having been anywhere near the terrain they fought over. He went to New Guinea ONCE, and then only for about a day to Port Moresby on the south coast of the island.
Every battle by the Australians was an "allied" one, and every battle by the Americans was an "American" one. He even renamed the Kokoda TRACK to Kokoda "TRAIL" a word never used in Australia.
He used Australian troops in the totally unnecessary invasion of Borneo at Balikpapen, costing over 500 lives in a battle that took place only about 5 weeks before the Bombs. He took no notice of his Commander-Land Forces, Lt Gen (later Field Marshal) Thomas Blamey, and ignored his input.
He refused/ignored FDRs instruction to appoint an Australian 2iC, giving the job to an American.
NOT respected!
SJ
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Post by Sir John on Sept 9, 2013 1:04:21 GMT -5
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Post by hornet32 on Sept 9, 2013 9:11:32 GMT -5
Big Mac was exactly what OZ needed at the time , John Curtin saw that , Big Mac's influence in DC brought much needed attention to down under , Nimitz was given credit for Island hoping , Big Mac knew what he was doing if he gave too much credit to OZ then attention would dwindle along with supplies from the states .
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Post by Sir John on Sept 9, 2013 14:12:38 GMT -5
Not sure I agree with that.
The US knew the Japanese had to be stopped somewhere, and they needed a big hard to get at base to start from. Most of the US troops came to Australia first for training etc, and then used us as a springboard to head north. Their supplies, at least initially, came via Australia. Most of the fresh food was grown here and sent north from the Darwin area. Most of the medical services were here, even our biggest and newest hospital was handed over the day it was finished, and they put over 30,000 GIs back together again.
The very fact that Mac was ordered south meant that FDR etc knew that had to be. No good basing a major military effort in the Pacific islands, all subject to attack and destruction.
Curtin greatly over-reacted to the Japanese threat, thinking that there would be a limit to US response to the Japanese, there was none. The decision to hand over total control of the Australian armed forces was totally unnecessary. Total co-operation was.
Most importantly, the city of Melbourne was SAFE enough for a BIG dugout to be built for Mac. When the japs were nearly back to Tokyo he moved north to Brisbane, 2500 kms from New Guinea.
SJ
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