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Post by hornet32 on Nov 29, 2013 11:11:30 GMT -5
Was Dunkirk a missed opportunity for the Germans ? they could have bagged the entire BEF but what would the German's have done with 325000 prisoners ? the German's did not have the facilities for such a mob maybe they could have paroled them but its unlikely the Empire would have gone for that , so what to do , let them go .
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Post by Swampy on Nov 29, 2013 22:09:56 GMT -5
I've been wondering about this for years - if they had captured the entire BEF, would the British have had to surrender? And, if so, could the Germans have taken Moscow in 1941? What would have happened then? Could the Americans have liberated Europe and fought the Japanese by themselves?
I'm glad we didn't have to find out.
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Post by hornet32 on Nov 29, 2013 22:48:15 GMT -5
Dunkirk one of those military wonders , Hitler or who decided that it was time to stop and regroup , the Panzers were in much need of maintenance and the Army overall needed a breather none of the that is a real excuse to let your enemy escape but it is a reason that more than one Army has used , Meade letting Lee get away at Gettysburg , Bragg letting Rosecarns get away at Chattanooga , and so on .
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Post by Sir John on Dec 11, 2013 13:54:35 GMT -5
Probably over confidence on the part of our peace loving German brothers. A week of R & R would seem like a reasonable thing with the Brits etc locked up tight.
Who would have thought that 1000s of 'little ships' would snatch 340,000 men off the beach? When they all arrived back home they were sent to hospital or on leave, and were all rested and re-equipped in time for 'Sea Lion'.
Look at the beach via Google Earth now and about 3 or 4 of the larger ships are still there on Dunkirk beach.
SJ
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Post by hornet32 on Dec 11, 2013 21:27:46 GMT -5
The Germans could easily have bagged the entire mob and set up POW camps in all their major cities say 35000 each then dared the allies to bomb the place , even Bomber Harris would have had a hard time justifying such an attempt and the Americans wouldn't have touched it .
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Post by Swampy on Dec 11, 2013 21:48:52 GMT -5
The Germans could easily have bagged the entire mob and set up POW camps in all their major cities say 35000 each then dared the allies to bomb the place , even Bomber Harris would have had a hard time justifying such an attempt and the Americans wouldn't have touched it . I've been wondering about this too. Dunkirk and the surrounding towns had narrow alleys, so the German armor would have had a hard time taking it from the British. Furthermore, the German tanks needed refitting, which was why von Rundstedt gave the halt order. So it may not have been a cakewalk for the enemy.
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Post by hornet32 on Dec 11, 2013 22:00:32 GMT -5
The BEF was totally disorganized they could not have fought back as a cohesive force most of the Brits had abandoned their arms and became a mob the French who had been basically useless during the engagement put up a stiff enough of a fight to allow the Brits to reach Dunkirk , the Germans didn't need to use tanks they had plenty of artillery in place and Dunkirk was in easy range , so was it a missed opportunity or a political move ? .
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Post by Sir John on Dec 11, 2013 22:01:50 GMT -5
That is a BIG no no according to the Geneva Convention.
Must be in camps away from target areas etc. Something that the Germans actually respected.
SJ
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Post by hornet32 on Dec 11, 2013 22:12:54 GMT -5
if the Camps were setup in downtown Berlin then Berlin wouldn't have been a target thus conforming with the Geneva convention . Check Mate .
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Post by Swampy on Dec 11, 2013 22:30:49 GMT -5
The BEF was totally disorganized they could not have fought back as a cohesive force most of the Brits had abandoned their arms and became a mob the French who had been basically useless during the engagement put up a stiff enough of a fight to allow the Brits to reach Dunkirk , the Germans didn't need to use tanks they had plenty of artillery in place and Dunkirk was in easy range , so was it a missed opportunity or a political move ? . As I understand it, the British left their arms on the beaches, but, until they evacuated, they were NOT disorganized.
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Post by hornet32 on Dec 11, 2013 23:26:52 GMT -5
Small groups wadding out into the channel trying to board small boats but they were not disorganized , interesting .
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Post by Sir John on Dec 11, 2013 23:43:00 GMT -5
In neat ORGANISED queues, waiting patiently their turn, with water up to the nostrils.
It would not have worked otherwise.
SJ
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Post by Swampy on Dec 11, 2013 23:47:33 GMT -5
The famous British discipline held even then, and they left their arms. But, if they had to use those arms, they would not have been waiting in queues at the boats.
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Post by Sir John on Dec 11, 2013 23:57:13 GMT -5
Five days of 'organised chaos' with boats as small as 12' long chugging back and forth across the Channel. The weather god smiled upon them, otherwise.......
340,000 men saved. They deserve full praise for what they achieved.
SJ
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Post by Sir John on Dec 12, 2013 0:04:20 GMT -5
There was another evacuation further south near Cherbourg. Not as big, and a bad loss of a ship full of soldiers.
...and the 1st Canadian Division landed in France, and the GOC took one look at the situation and knew he would be leading his men straight into a German POW camp. He ordered all the Divisions gear re-loaded back on the ship and sailed to England. Very sensible.
SJ
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