|
Post by Swampy on Jan 1, 2013 12:51:42 GMT -5
If you think drug prices are expensive, consider the cost of tuition at American colleges. Canadian ones are subsidized, so they're one-tenth the level of American ones, which have been rising faster than inflation (ouch!). Mount Holyoke has frozen tuition, due to competition, and that is good. I have always been skeptical about tuition increases, because a lot of it is used to pay professors for useless research so they can tenure, which means job security for life. I think this industry needs a good dose of free markets, which means letting professors go if they don't teach well - even tenured ones - and also letting colleges fail if they don't control costs (all those lovely ivy-covered buildings) and provide a good service.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2013 13:24:51 GMT -5
When I went to Duke, as I recall the tuition was about $5K per year, an outrageously high cost for the times. Now that much wouldn't get you more than 4-6 credit hours in some high rated schools.
|
|
|
Post by boxcar on Jan 1, 2013 13:34:41 GMT -5
In 1954 tuition at the University of Illinois was $75/semister. That was a land grant college and they made their money from the land they controlled.
|
|
|
Post by Swampy on Jan 3, 2013 10:58:15 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by boxcar on Jan 3, 2013 11:47:12 GMT -5
They'd have to cut tenure.
|
|
|
Post by mcnoch on Jan 3, 2013 13:15:43 GMT -5
University is free in Germany. We want all to have the best possible education so they can earn big bugs or so.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2013 14:14:52 GMT -5
University is free in Germany. We want all to have the best possible education so they can earn big bugs or so. Who pays the bills? And who wants big bugs?
|
|
|
Post by Sir John on Jan 3, 2013 14:36:34 GMT -5
FWIW, we have as thing called HECS (Higher Education Contribution Scheme) which advances the cost, or part of the cost, of a Uni course. Not sure if that advance incurs interest.
Repayments start after the graduate earns about $30,000 a year, and I must admit I have no further details.
Premier will probably know more.
SJ
|
|
|
Post by mcnoch on Jan 4, 2013 2:53:32 GMT -5
Who pays the bills? And who wants big bugs? We, the tax payers pay the bill as we received our education free too and the organisation to which we tax-payers all berlong, the state, wants the tax money later, so the burden as shared on more shoulders.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 8:22:36 GMT -5
It's been over 30 years since I was in Germany (then WEST Germany) but I remember that the citizens had to pay high taxes on everything. I lived in a brand new house and the reason was that if the owners rented out the place for the first five years, the taxes on it were much lower. Seemed odd to me but I was a visitor to the country so I didn't care and had a great house for next to nothing.
|
|
|
Post by mcnoch on Jan 4, 2013 12:32:10 GMT -5
Yes, but that is the way we want it. We Germans like it centrally organised and when our state/government has to organise and maintain the necessary systems it needs our tax money to do so.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 13:41:11 GMT -5
Does the German government also influence what can, and or is, taught in your schools? What is their role in the schools since they pay for them with your tax money? Who or what determines what the structure, both physically and intellectually, will be? More questions probably to follow.
|
|
|
Post by mcnoch on Jan 4, 2013 14:20:53 GMT -5
The German education system is a bit different than the one in the USA. You start with six in the elementary school and depending on the skills you showed you are then directed to secondary schools which either lead to a very low level of academic education and more practical education to learn a manual trade later or to a mix of both, normal followed by an apprenticeship or to the high school which then leads to the University. Your College is roughly the last two years of our high-school and the first year of your University. In all schools the education boards of the federal states define what the required stuff you have to learn is, but every school is free to change the focus, e.g. more music or languages. The final exams for all school-types are more or less equalized per state to make the results comparable. Only during the high-school you have a class in civics where the state, its organizations, the economy, etc.. is the focus. But that is a very liberal approach, not the indoctrination of a Eastern Block regime. Private organizations are allowed to open their own schools as long as they meet the basic requirements, if they meet the full requirements their final exams are recognized too. The state gives the private schools the money it would have had to invest into a public school for the pupils. We have a number of organizations running all kind of private schools. I was on such a private school too. Home schooling is normally not allowed, only when you are too sick to go to a school, then teachers are available to teach you at home. Teaching only by the parents for more than just a few weeks is illegal to ensure that the kid as later on all chances to pass a final exam and have a good job. Some extreme religious groups are protesting against that, but they always loose in the courts. Thei rights of the children to have a good future are more important than the religious believers of the parents. At the Universities it depends a bit. Many professions require in Germany a state examination, e.g. Lawyers, physicians, teachers,... So for these courses the stuff you have to learn is defined by the state. In others it is defined on a much more flexible line by education boards of the federal states. But as always you are free to go beyond these levels in all directions. There is no censorship of scientific research or results. Some politicians don’t like that the students are encouraged by their teachers to challenge the system, but there is no way to stop that as we, the people, expect that from our students. All revolutions in Germany were lead by students and then taken on by the general public. Schoolbooks are produced by private publishers tailored to the local requirements. The schools are free to choose from these books, very often the schools have multiple series of these schoolbooks as some teachers prefer the one while other another one. Schoolbooks are lend by the school to all pupils, so they don't have to buy them and everyone is working with the same edition.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 16:39:47 GMT -5
Very interesting, thanks for the explanation.
As an outsider looking in, I wouldn't wish to subscribe to that form of governmental "guidance". We pride ourselves on our individualism and generally feel that one mold does not fit all. The government has little or nothing to do with how a university is run. In many cases, whether good or bad, personal money determines the school a student will attend. Some of the more famous schools cost an inordinate amount of money to attend, thus limiting the student pool from either the very wealthy or those who were lucky enough to qualify for scholarships. Even state run schools have gotten expensive, especially to those who are not residents of that particular state. Some schools are specialty schools, i.e., music, science, engineering etc., and these too are expensive.
When I was of age to go to college, very few attended. When I was in the Army, in my branch of service in the Army (Intel for lack of a better word), less than 1% had attended college AT ALL (in the enlisted ranks that is) and there were NO women. We didn't have any women until the early 70s. There were virtually no blacks, perhaps less than 1%. So you can see how things have changed here.
|
|
|
Post by Swampy on Jan 4, 2013 18:05:24 GMT -5
I'd agree with Denny - I prefer the individualist approach.
|
|