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Post by Sir John on Mar 7, 2013 16:52:02 GMT -5
Swampy,
Given that there was a large exodus from north to south, not unlike the east to west in Germany etc, I really doubt that any referendum in Vietnam would have been "legit".
I do not think that the vote counters, even the UN, would have been above reproach. The UN never seems to be too critical of our peace loving socialist friends.
JMO
SJ
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2013 16:53:18 GMT -5
To understand American involvment in Vietnam you needed to be part of the process to understand that you really didn't understand .
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Post by Swampy on Mar 7, 2013 17:13:27 GMT -5
Given that there was a large exodus from north to south, not unlike the east to west in Germany etc, I really doubt that any referendum in Vietnam would have been "legit". Exactly!
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Post by dontom on Mar 8, 2013 3:06:19 GMT -5
I don't know - I was thinking of the 1954 partition, when over a million Vietnamese left the north. I understand there was supposed to be a vote, and it never went through, but I'll say I don't know much about that. Some went north too, but many more went south. But even after all of that, the population of the north was greater than the south. The USA did NOT want this vote to take place, because all the evidence showed the north would win such, even if the vote was done as honestly as possible.
A memo written by Richard Bissell (then CIA member of a high-level Working Group on Indochina) on 20 December 1954 states:"...with regard to the elections scheduled to take place in 1956. As matters now stand and appear to be progressing, there seems to be a substantial likelihood of a Viet Minh election victory, and the consequent loss of all Vietnam to the Communists. Perhaps the only course by which the Western signers of the Geneva Agreement could concert to circumvent or avoid the elections would be through the accumulation of extensive, well-documented and persuasive evidence of Viet Minh violations of the agreement....This effort should not be considered as a counter-offensive or anti-Communist in a narrow sense, but rather as a major campaign directed toward the single objective of postponing or avoiding the elections."But the problem was that there were not going to be any such violations in the north as it was clear they would win such anyway.
And what were the real reasons more people went south? I bet the reasons would vary a lot, not that most were afraid of what would later happen under Uncle Ho.
-Don- SSF, CA
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2013 15:02:42 GMT -5
Its all acedemic , thet were there we were there , they are still there and we are here .
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Post by jerryfmcompushaft on Mar 8, 2013 15:19:13 GMT -5
Geeze, Don, I THOUGHT the South Vietnamese DID invite us, and I'm reasonably that the North Vietnamese were the ones who were in the South uninvited. I can't remember many South Vietnamese going to the North -- uninvited...Then there was that pesky thing of a treaty with the South that said we would help them if they needed it.... Of all Vietnam, those who wanted us there wasn't the majority. And what treaty are you referring too? Was that part of the same treaty that included the 1958 all-Vietnam elections?
-Don- SSF, CA
Yep, Don, you and Jane Fonda were right. The North Vietnamese were peace loving patriots who just wanted to re-unite their country under the beneficient rule of Ho Chi Minh while the imperialist running dogs of America were just bent on gaining control of all the BUFEs produced in South Vietnam. Damn their greedy souls anyway!
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Post by Swampy on Mar 8, 2013 17:16:51 GMT -5
And the Boat People would agree with you, Jerry, not to mention the Hmong tribesmen.
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Post by Sir John on Mar 8, 2013 17:33:20 GMT -5
Agree,
When "the people" flee from communism by climbing walls, or risking their lives in boats, it usually tells us a story of the failure of that tragic social and economic theory.
SJ
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2013 17:39:13 GMT -5
quiz anyone know the interpatation of Viet Cong into english .
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Post by Sir John on Mar 8, 2013 17:48:03 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2013 19:09:29 GMT -5
VC =Communist people + VM = Minh's People .
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Post by dontom on Mar 9, 2013 3:56:56 GMT -5
quiz anyone know the interpatation of Viet Cong into english . Diem coined the name to mean "Vietnamese communist", but they were not all commies. The VC was made of various groups that wanted us out of there during that time. Seems later they had more ties to the North.
-Don- SSF, CA
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Post by dontom on Mar 9, 2013 6:20:58 GMT -5
Yep, Don, you and Jane Fonda were right. The North Vietnamese were peace loving patriots who just wanted to re-unite their country under the beneficient rule of Ho Chi Minh while the imperialist running dogs of America were just bent on gaining control of all the BUFEs produced in South Vietnam.Damn their greedy souls anyway! Well, let's ask Uncle Ho if the North Vietnamese were peaceful:
"The Vietnamese people deeply love independence, freedom and peace. But in the face of United States aggression they have risen up, united as one man." --Ho Chi Minh
-Don Quoteman, SSF, CA
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Post by Swampy on Mar 9, 2013 9:12:17 GMT -5
The VC were communists from the south, as opposed to the NVA, who were military personnel from the north.
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Post by jerryfmcompushaft on Mar 9, 2013 10:25:21 GMT -5
Yep, Don, you and Jane Fonda were right. The North Vietnamese were peace loving patriots who just wanted to re-unite their country under the beneficent rule of Ho Chi Minh while the imperialist running dogs of America were just bent on gaining control of all the BUFEs produced in South Vietnam.Damn their greedy souls anyway! Well, let's ask Uncle Ho if the North Vietnamese were peaceful:
"The Vietnamese people deeply love independence, freedom and peace. But in the face of United States aggression they have risen up, united as one man." --Ho Chi Minh
-Don Quoteman, SSF, CA
And of course - he was right! It was the aggressive Americans who were responsible for the war. If they had just stayed home, the North could have easily adopted the South and everyone would have been happy (except all those misguided souls who risked their lives escaping in overloaded boats) Don - you are so naive it is almost painful..... Just out of curiosity, what do you think was America's motivation to go to Vietnam anyway? Was it to corner the market on BUFEs or Saigon Tea?
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